Name: Shifting the Question From ‘How Big?’ to ‘How Engaged?’ is Your Church
Uploaded: 2024-09-16T15:05:41.828Z
Duration: 35 min 4 s
Description: Shifting the Question From ‘How Big?’ to ‘How Engaged?’ is Your Church

Transcript for "Shifting the Question From ‘How Big?’ to ‘How Engaged?’ is Your Church": Alright. Well, good morning if you guys are there. We're gonna wait for just a little bit and allow some people to click over. Might be playing with a few of the different breakouts and see where they're at, but welcome. If you're here, you know, please let us know. You can throw in a chat, maybe let us know where you're from. Say hi, and we'll, we'll see how who else there. That's great. And we've got 3 people in here so far, so we'll give it a little bit of time, see if a few more show up for us. Alright. Alright. I got a couple more of added in. So let me do this. First of all, I know we're gonna have some people continue to to bounce in and say this, so I just wanna say welcome. And, thank you guys for being here. And and I mean, thank you not just here as in the breakout here, but here with the the summit. It's I just love seeing churches that invest in the future and especially with regards to technologies, and some of the others. I also want to thank Ministry Brands for creating an environment or a platform or format for us all to grow and do those things. So thanks to them. I'm gonna talk today, a little bit about engagement. Let me introduce myself first. My name is Blu Van Dyke. I started a company called Studio C that's focused exclusively on helping churches engage with their members better. Prior to that, I was an executive pastor at a church here in Arizona. But before that, I was a marketplace guy. So maybe that's a little bit of my disclaimer to say, hey, those of you that has marketplace background, you're gonna hear some of that, you know, popping out as we go through this. So that's my little a little, confession maybe as we go through that. Prior to joining the church, I was a venture capitalist, so we would buy and sell companies. Before that, I worked at a digital agency, so think marketing company and how you speak to people, but using digital. And then before that, I was with a car company called, Daimler Benz or the parent company Mercedes Benz. So a lot of that that knowledge and experience I'm just bringing forward, we'll see that. So first thing I want to do as we dive into this thing, is really jump in and say what, like, why are we doing this? Why are we even talking about engaging our people? This is a growth strategy. I think of engagement as a way to actually grow the church by growing your members. So you think about it as this, we're gonna get to know our members so that we can grow them spiritually, so that we can grow our church, so hopefully we can grow the kingdom as you go through this. But the problem is that we've run into for a while is that the old model is broken. Unfortunately, the church, as far as attendance and growth, is actually in decline. And so what we've said is in the past, we've typically focused on one thing called attendance, which is get them here on Sunday and we'll provide a great experience. What we're seeing is that's not enough. So we need to move from attendance to engagement. Alright. So that leads me to the next thing. What do we mean by engagement? What are we talking about when we say engage people? Well, what we mean by engagement is think of that as the things that you'd have your people do, because we've just learned that over the last 2000 years of history, the church has taught us when the people do these things, the probability of their heart changing for the Lord goes way up. Now, here's where people always get stuck. I know these are things. These are activities. We're actually not interested in the activity. We're interested in the transformation that the activity can create. So think of those things within your church, the context, the things we look for our people to do. Obviously, we still want them to go to church, but we also want them to get into small group. We want them to serve. We We want them to give their resources. We want them to learn to share their faith with other people and be transformed. That's what we mean by engagement. How do we get our people to do more of those things and do it well so that they can grow in their faith? Alright. So a couple things I'm going to talk about today. A couple things I think you need to do engagement well. First thing we need is a pathway. Right? Think of this as where is it the journey that we're trying to send people on? What is it that we're asking them to do? We actually need some data, some information so that we know where they are in that journey. So that thirdly, what we can do is tell them how to get there or take the next step. So we need a messaging platform. We need a pathway. This is where they're headed or where they're at. We need some data to understand where they are in the journey, and then we need a messaging platform to tell them when to turn right or left. I like to think of this sometimes as a giant GPS. Right? Think of us as like any GPS, in order for it to work, I gotta know where somebody's headed. If I'm here in Arizona and I'm heading California, does no good to give me direction heading east. Right? So I like to think of the pathway as the destination that we want to send people on. And then like any good GPS, I got to know where you're starting from. If I'm headed to California, it's a whole different set of directions if I'm in Arizona than if I'm in New York City. Right? So that's where we use data to understand where people are. And then ultimately, like a GPS, I need some sort of a platform that tells me when to turn right, left, etcetera. And that's what we're talking about with messaging. Okay? So I'm going to dive into those 3 areas. The first area I wanna talk about is this area called engagement. Right? What do we mean by an engagement pathway as we go through? Now, this is my version of oversimplifying a church pathway on a single piece of paper. And I'll tell you where this came from. As a venture capitalist, I used to get these PowerPoints, they're about this thick, trying to tell me why this company is worth $1,000,000,000. And I would often just stop. And I would say, hey, can you go on the board for me? Can you please just draw on a single piece of paper what it is that your customer does? When do they go through the journey they walk through? So when I joined the church and started working for the church, I tried to draw our own. So, you know, overly simplified by far, but I try to say our job as a church is to take this person, I like to call them a not yet Christian, We take them down through some journey. So they spit out the bottom, plug in your word. Fully committed follower of Christ, disciple, disciple maker, you name it. And we do that because we hope then they'll go out to their area of influence, they'll bring more people in. The great commission on a PowerPoint slide. Right? We simply broke that into 3 areas. At some point in life cycle, we need to attract them. At some point, we need to engage them. And at some point, we're gonna try to multiply them or send them out. So I would recommend you take this pathway and just divide it into 2 sections. The upper section is often known in the marketing world as a purchase funnel or a marketing funnel, and the bottom is often called an engagement wheel. Alright? So roughly going through that, I'll talk about it in the upper. At some point, you just need to make people aware that you exist as a church. That would be any marketing or advertising that you do as a church. Then you want people to consider going to your church. I will tell you that typically people go to your website when considering a church. In fact, our studies have shown that they go to somewhere between 12 and 15 different websites before they'll ever show up at your campus. K? So my little pro tip, go look at your website and look at it whether it's through the lens of a prospect, somebody coming in and looking at you, or the lens of a member. And I'd highly recommend it be prospect centric. One of the surveys that we did is we asked people, hey, when you're going to a website, what are you looking for? And the number one answer was to see if this church is weird or not. Right? So look through the lens of a prospect, not your member. From there, we want them to evaluate you as a church. That's typically a first time visit. Guys, a first time visit is not a win. In my old world, I'm a car guy, first time visit, it's a test drive. Right? We want him to get into the car, smell the leather, test drive it. So we look at our evaluation phase, not a win. K? Ultimately, then they raise their hand. This is when it gets fun. Once they say they're in, what are the things you hope they do? So think of this through your context of your engagement pathway. We want them to go commit their life to Christ through baptism, go to church on a regular basis, get into small group, serve other people here or in our community, worldwide. We want them to share their faith with other people, give up their resources. This is what we mean by engagement and engagement pathway. And ultimately, we want them to lead other people and bring people to Christ. Now, here's why I think of engagement as a growth strategy. When I was in the in the car industry at Mercedes, we had this down to a science. We spent about $1200 in advertising to bring somebody in. Right? So that's our ad budget divided by first time buyers. Once they bought a car, we spent about $300 to get them engaged in the brand. If we did a good job on that, on average, they brought 4 people in a Mercedes for us. So you spend 25% of the money, you get a 4 x return on investment. So everything that we focus on, we're saying, hey. You have a dollar to spend? I'd spend 70¢ on it engaging your members. Right? We go through this. So the hard part is you don't just have to engage them. You have to engage them uniquely. Everybody in your congregation is different. They're unique. We've got to stop thinking them as that being at the same place or running at the same pace. They all come in differently based on spiritual background formations, you name it, and they run-in a different peat at a different pace. So our goal, as you look at engagement and as an engagement methodology, think of this, How do I know where every single individual member in my church is within that discipleship pathway? How do I use data to match them to something they can do next? And then how do I talk to them uniquely and relevantly and personally to encourage them to take that step? And then I would encourage you to measure it, and measure it well so that you can figure out how to get better. Alright? So the first thing I talk about in order to engage people well is you've got to have an engagement pathway well defined and clearly understood by everybody in your church. The next thing you need, you need to be able to talk to them. You need to be able to deliver highly personalized targeted messages to encourage people to take a step. Alright. Now my first thing on this that I'm going to encourage you to do is something that I call, you know, kill the shotgun. Typically, we go out, we look at this, and we say we're gonna go out, we're gonna communicate to people. More churches than not that I meet with, this is what their messaging looks like. From the stage, they hit the member, every single ministry sending out their own messages. We're over here as a family, and I'm just getting bombarded from a 1,000 different entry points. Right? It's a little bit unfair, but when I first started working at the church, right, I have 4 children by the time. I had a young adult, a high school student, I had a junior high school student, elementary school student. I was a small group leader, I was in a group, men's group, you name it. I sat there and I just printed out all of them email messages that I'd received over the course of 60 days. And guys, it was a small ream about this thing. So what I'm saying is we've got to stop this idea that everybody communicates with the message, and we need to develop what I'm gonna call targeted communications. So think about how do I centralize what I'm saying to our member? I call it who owns Bob and the church, it should be communicating, not the ministries. Right? And the church on behalf of the ministry. How do I centralize that, and how do I prioritize the messages so that we don't inundate and overwhelm the members of our church? Well, one of the ways that we recommend you do that is to use your mobile app as the primary communication tool for your members. Now I mentioned earlier that we like to think of the website as the primary channel for prospects, people who don't go to your church yet. Conversely, I like to think of the mobile app not the only way, but the primary way to talk to your members. Guys, I love it for a number of reasons. They have it with them all the time. Right? I used to tell my staff, it's church in their pocket. They have it there. It's what we call a post gate experience. To get into your mobile app, they have to log in, which means I I now know who they are, so I get to communicate really uniquely with them. And I get to use all kinds of device stuff. I get to use cameras and QR codes and a whole bunch of fun stuff. So what we recommend, what our tool actually does in support of this, is we can create highly targeted messages that push into any mobile app. This is why we work so well with Ministry Brands. We can push into their mobile app, we can pull over data and I'll show you some of that. But some of the elements that I like to recommend that you look at when you're delivering personalized messages. First of all, take that engagement pathway we just discussed, just expose it to your members. Right? Let's just sit in church and we have this pathway and I remember thinking why would I know something about somebody's pathway that they don't know themselves? Why would I either know what it is or where they're at on it? So my encouragement is you take the pathway and you expose it out. This is a way for Emily to log in to her email, I don't care, or to her her mobile app, doesn't really matter, and she'd be able to look at this and say, hey, this is exactly what I should be doing to grow in my faith. Right? And not only this is what I should be doing, but here's what I've currently done and what I haven't. So what we do is we take that pathway and if somebody's taken that step, we light it up. If they haven't, we gray it out. It becomes a really clear indication for her to say, yeah, I've been baptized to go to church. I'm not in small group, I serve, you know, I've shared my faith but I'm not giving and I'm not leading other people. Conversely, you can look over at David. He looks at the same mobile app and he sees his as different. And what we're doing guys is we're moving this from a brochure as your mobile app to a dashboard to a toolbox. Think of this as your member toolbox, how they're going to engage. So first and foremost, give them the buttons. The cool thing is let them click on those buttons too. You can click on and actually sign right up for ministry or doing group or signing up for serving right through those buttons. Here's what's cool though also, you can take and create highly targeted messages based on where people are in their life cycle. So in this case, Emily, when she opens up the mobile app, will get a message that says get into small group. But why would we ever tell David to get into small group? He's already in 1. Right? And I will tell you this is just a little anecdotal, but for fun is where this came from. I I had recently joined staff. I'm sitting in my office, staff member. But as a member of the church, I get an email and it says, hey, Blue. Small group season, don't forget to sign up for group. So I printed it out and I wrote on there, been in a group for 16 years, been leading a group for 11 years. Right? This email just did 2 things. It told me after 16 years, my church still doesn't know who I am, and it told me I can ignore every future email because they're obviously irrelevant. Right? So our our objective to work with churches, what I encourage you is think about getting the right message to the right person at the right time and even on the right channel. That's what we're trying to do. But before you get there, just stop sending silly messages to people. Guys, silly messages are actually counterproductive. They're not neutral. When you say something that says I don't know you, it's actually a negative. It's not a neutral. Right? So we're gonna stop with the silly, stop with the shotgun. The other thing that I would say is even though you may have a message you want everybody to get, k? And so the example I give in the mobile app here is we want everybody to go to the barbecue. You may have something for everybody, but you can create it in a way that converts better. Right? So Emily in this case, go to the barbecue, may get imagery of a family and fun and friendly invite, and David can get meat and sports and whatever we think he does. But the idea is not only do we want the right message to the right person, we wanna use the right copy and the right content or creative that helps convert a little bit better. So the idea is you target the message and you target the delivery and the components of the message as well. K. Here's my next tip. Stop with what we call the multichannel approach and move to what we like to call an omnichannel approach. Here's what I mean by that and the difference. Multichannel, it's just that I have multiple channels I can talk to a member on. I can send them something to their mobile app, on the website, an email, a text message, a phone call. Here's what a lot of churches do. They take the same message and they blast it out on every channel, and you just hope it lands on, you know, whoever I'm trying to talk to at some point. What happens is it becomes really counterproductive because I may have taken the call to action and then you're still pinging me 4 other times to hurry up and sign up for for camp or something of that. What we want to move is from this multichannel to an omnichannel. That means I use them, I just use them in sequence and I use them in a journey or an order. So the example that I have to give is this, we still like email and SMS. Right? But we may invite Emily to join small group through the mobile app. If she actually clicks on the button and signs up for group, that can trigger then an email that says, hey, congratulations for signing up. Here's what you can expect. Right? And then that can actually trigger a text message to go out the night before and encourage her to actually show up and not, you know, quit or give up in some of these areas. So the idea is don't just think of a message, think of a campaign, think of a journey. Now you can't do this for everything you send out, but for some of the bigger initiatives, we want you to be able to build this entire journey where we message somebody across multiple channels. Alright. The next thing that I want to do is we want to get alignment in our messaging. We want people all focused on the same thing. So what I want is even though I'm exposing to the member what their discipleship journey is and I'm encouraging them to take steps, I wanna help my staff do that for the members as well. So inside of the mobile app, what we do is this would be your staff member, of course, because everything's personalized. They have their own dashboard. They have their own steps, their own messaging. But if this person, in this case, Tara's gonna go meet with Emily, she can type in Emily's name and she actually gets an overview of where Emily is. So now as Tara's walking in this meeting, she's not blind. She can actually see exactly where Emily is in her walk, which steps has she taken, is she not? She can get information about Emily so that I can be personal and relevant, but then I can also see the messages that Emily is receiving through her personal dashboard. And it's a way to just align staff to go on and have the same verbal message and communication that we're conveying digitally. K? 3rd group. Right? So we're trying to get the the basically, the member to own their own engagement pathway. We're gonna get staff to reinforce that engagement pathway. We can even get small group leaders to reinforce it further. So the idea is that we would know permission based who's a small group leader. They'd have some functionality that pops up that allows them to communicate with their with the people on the roster, but more importantly, see also where the people in their roster are. So now that I can have an intelligent push with people in our small group. Alright. So you're getting it. The idea is, hey, you're gonna need a couple things. We want to we want to be highly targeted and highly personal. We want to be highly relevant. We want to kill the shotgun, and we want to be aligned with everybody pointing towards the same strategy. Now, in order to do that, you're going to need some tools and you're going to need some skills, right, as we go through. So a couple things that I would highly recommend. At some point, you're going to need some data sources. Now the number one place for your data source is your church management system. If for some reason you don't have a church management system, you should go get 1. Ministry Brands has great. They just got done talking about Amplify. Terrific tool for you to go grab to get some sources of data. But there are many sources of data. Right? You have a giving platform through there. I had everybody at my church actually take a personality test at one time or spiritual gifts test. You want to be able to use all of that data so that you can curate these highly personalized messages to help shepherd or encourage people to get more engaged. So you're gonna need a message. In addition to sources of data, you need some sort of a personalization engine or a messaging platform. That's the role we play. And then from there, that message needs to get pushed out to a channel, some place that people consume it. So that's where I highly encourage you to have a mobile app. Right? Like the ones we've talked about here within, within Amplify. You need a website, you need email, and potentially text message, but all of these channels should work in Union. That's the number one goal is to find some way that they can be aligned, we can capture that data and continue to get better. Alright. So we've covered 2 of what I think are the 3 core elements to engagement well. You have to have an engagement pathway, you have to have a messaging platform to talk to people, and then the third thing that you're also gonna need is some analytics. I'm gonna back up for a second. There's one other thing that I wanna say, and and I forgot to mention this. In addition to having good tools, I really would recommend that you need some good communication skills. Alright? And here's a little bit of what I'm trying to, encourage in in the industry, Is I really believe that you can take almost what people do and put them into these 5 buckets within this. You have some executive leadership and their job is setting vision and direction and focus. Right? And then you have some people that are supporting the organization. This might be HR, finance and IT. But then somewhere inside the organization needs somebody that is responsible for the product, somebody that's responsible for distributing the product, and somebody that's responsible for telling everybody and their brother why they should consume it. Right, so in the church world when I look at that, we have our ministries, and this would be the weekend experience, small groups, all of that. Then we have our campus or our online channel where people consume it. But when I got to the church, this idea about organized communication, it was the Wild West. So what I'm trying to con convince is, hey, it's okay to bring the science of communicating to the industry of church. Right? Most churches I talk to have their mark on down here. I like to say they think of them more like Kinko's than they do as a strategic partner. Right? Print this for me or do something. And my my recommendation, my encouragement is to pull that from here and make it a core part. You know, we go in, when I work for the car company, there's a factory that builds it, there is a dealership that distributes it, and there's an ad agency that tells the whole world why they should buy it. We're trying to do the same thing. We've got a much better product, and we should bring some of the same skills to it. Alright. Thanks for the tangent. I'm gonna go back now to the 3rd element. Right? The pathway, the messaging platform, and now the metrics or the analytics. K. Couple things that I'm thinking is the progress of where we're going for. The what. What we do as a church has always remained consistent, and it remains consistent to what it did 2000 years ago where it is today. Our job is to love God, love people, and make disciples. Right? Commandment and commission. That's what we're trying to do. Now, how we do that has always evolved. And of late, I think what we used to say is, hey, we're gonna depend heavily on this 1 hour service that shows up, and so bring everybody in on Sunday and we're gonna drive forward with that. That is morphed into a little bit of the hybrid model where not only do we depend on the weekend experience, it's still critical, absolutely critical. But in addition to that, we're adding in small groups and serving and sharing your faith and discipleship programs and men's groups and all of these other areas so that we can help people get that transformation of heart that isn't dependent just on the 1 hour Sunday. Well, if we left it to just the 1 hour, then measuring attendance was sufficient. That's all we did was a service, so measuring what you do is what you're trying to what's important. However, since we've transitioned already to more of a hybrid model, we should be measuring more than just attendance. So my key to that when you look at analytics is we should be looking at the steps, the engagement of our members more than just the attendance of our members. Right? And I would do this in this progression. I think that our approach to measuring it kind of moves in its certain areas. To start with, foundationally what we want to do is we want to be able to go in and measure what happened. I'm going to call this hindsight data. Where am I at any point in time? How many people have signed up for group? How many people are serving? How many people went to church in attendance? That's all hindsight. But then we want to progressively move into the 2nd phase, which is really called insight data. And now you're asking some questions like, when did it happen? Why does it happen? Right? When will it happen again? What can we think about doing? So we're moving this idea of the insights that help inform us in doing ministry better, not just what happened, but can I now, because of this data, be smarter in how I make things happen? And ultimately, what we want to move to is what we call foresight data, which is predictive. Right? How can I go through and predict these things are going to happen into the future so I can get ahead of the curve and start talking to people now about stuff that we think is going to happen in the future? Alright. So I'm going to give you just a couple examples of some of the hindsight analytics that we're looking at. I'll go through all of them. Some of the mains that you would look at, we're trying to say, hey, what are our total records? How many steps have been taken? So what we're looking at here is removing not just from attendance, but how effective have we been historically getting our people to take a step in their faith? And then of course, attendance and giving units and sampling. But then I start looking at the bundling of those as a church. Are we heavy oriented in groups? Are we light on service? How do I look at the interactions of where my people are serving in comparison to the other steps? Right? That's some of the hindsight. I'm still looking at just what happened. Now the beauty of the insight data, and I again, I'm focused heavily on engagement, is I start looking at some of the time gaps between steps. Right? How long is it from a first time visit till a first step? How long from a first step to a second step? And do that by demographic type, age segments, gender, you name it, we can start breaking it down. What that does is that it helps inform your messaging, so you now know, hey, we're gonna take our first time visitors, and at 4 and a half months, I'm gonna hit them with a message about groups because that's historically the time frame it usually takes, whatever that might be. Right? And then the fun stuff. Ultimately, we wanna start using that data to predict future behavior. Right? And time permitting here, I think we've got a few minutes left, I'll show you a case study of that. But ultimately, we want to start looking at where people are, and then based on historical data and look alike audiences, we're going to predict where they can go. So I might look at this and use some of these reports to say, hey, of all the people who are serving currently but are not in, you know, this, what's their next step predictably and when would it happen? And then now your messaging team or your comms team can go out and set really intelligent messages throughout that. K. Now I know we've got some questions. I've been looking. If you have any more questions, please type them in or send them over. Otherwise, I'm gonna I'm gonna share these couple of case studies and, and then we'll open it up to that too. One thing I wanna show I wanna highlight for you is I have, for a long time, I have been of the assumption that both giving and attendance are a a lag indicator for engagement. Right? They are a byproduct, if you will, of engagement. So what we did is we took 3 of our churches that are doing engagement incredibly well. Okay? And we just tracked them for 2 years, and then we tracked giving and attendance as it relates to engagement. So this line, this brown line, is every time they click on a message. Hey. Somebody's talking to me and they're encouraging me to do something. This yellow line is every time they click on one of those badges, hey, they're clicking on that and I'm encouraging to do something. And you can see this direct correlation as engagement grew, you see almost exactly giving and attendance grew at the same pace. What's really cool is we saw some spikes in engagement. Now very specifically, the churches that created the spike where they were doing 21 days of fasting and prayer. And you can see some spikes that trail right at about 6 months following this. And so what we're trying to say is we're actually using data now to substantiate what I think we've long believed, which is you focus on engagement and you actually see a growth in both giving and attendance. Right? Think of them as a byproduct. In this particular case of these 3 churches, and they're killing it on engagement, but their giving is up 57% over the past 2 years and their attendance is up 25%. So we're starting to actually justify an investment and engagement and show that it really does make sense with the other things that we're always important. K. Got just a few minutes left. I wanna I definitely wanna talk about some of the questions that you guys have going on here. I'm gonna give you just a couple little case studies that we've run-in the past. One of the case studies in your church we were working with is we were trying to predict who was gonna leave the church in the future so we could talk to them today to see if we could shrink our backdoor. Alright? So we built a look alike audience that took 2 years worth of data of people who have left the church and we looked at what they looked like. When did they stop going to group? When did they stop giving, etcetera? We took all of those datasets and ran everybody in our congregation through that and found people that looked like them. K? Then I divided that into 3 groups. 1 group was a control group. 1 group, we got phone calls, so I did nothing. The control group means I didn't do anything with them. Another one, we made phone calls to, and the other one, we sent over really highly targeted personalized messages digitally. Ran this for 6 months. In the 6 months, 57% of our people left. So 25% of the control group, 17% of the phone calls, and 15% of the digital messages. So statistically, the data is really accurate. We're able to predict who's gonna leave. What's really interesting is that the control group being 25%, 17% that got a phone call still left, but only 15% that got digital messages. So arguably, you could say not only did we predict who was gonna leave, but we were able to influence the outcome by 10% less by just knowing who was gonna be there. K. Last one quickly, this is more of an upper funnel, I'll still show you data. We were doing a marriage conference at a with a church. And in this marriage conference, we were bringing people in and and the conference theme was called fight night, right, we're going through. Well, what we did is we wanted to market to people who don't go to our church. So I hired a data analytics company that helped me with this, and what we did is we drew a 5 mile radius around the campus, and we said we want to get a list of everybody we predict will be divorced in the next 6 months. We sent those individuals social media posts inviting them to the marriage conference. When they clicked on the marriage conference link, we now know who they were. Well, in the course of that, these were the the actual messages we sent out, fight for your lot, you know, your marriage, you've tried everything else, you've tried the church, etcetera. Well, in that span, what we did by inviting them to free tickets to the marriage conference, we got 1200 people who had never been to that church show up for the conference. But now that they've clicked on the ticket or the message, I now have first name, last name, email so I could follow-up and I could build one of those campaigns where they're now getting an email that says, hey, if you thought the conference was good, you should try small groups. All I'm doing with these case studies, guys, is try to show you the power of knowing your people and having a way to message them and then measuring whether it's actually happening. You can really, really start to move the needle. Hey, Caitlin. I know you're on there. Do we have any questions? We are happy to see see if we have some here. Yeah. Okay. Yep. So, you know, there's a couple different tools or programs that you can use when looking at some of those apps. I will tell you that some of the tools, and they're called visualization tools, some of the most standard visualization tools that are out there, would be something like a Tableau, a Power BI, a Domo. These are industry wide visualization tools. And all they do is they take the data, they allow you to create pretty graphs. I will tell you they're pretty pricey, either can be fairly pricey, and they can be fairly complicated. Part of what we did is we've worked with Amplify to pull that data in so that we can build the reports through our tool in what I just showed you A little bit, hopefully, a little bit, we can go through cleaner, easier to read reports that are going through that. So there are other tools. You're gonna have to build hooks into your data. Or, again, we've partnered, with Amplify with Ministry Brands and Amplify to build out these reports so that you'll be able to pull them right in through your Amplify product. So, Jess, I hope that answered the question that you were actually looking for. Yeah. I would say guys if you know, one of the things, first of all, look through your tech stack, and this was really meant to be less of a sales pitch if we go through and to say, hey, do I have these elements? How prepared am I with an engagement pathway? And it's worth spending some time with your team and say, what are the things we want our people to do? Right? And and then what I'd say is go through that and say, let me look at my tool step.